Interfaces Conference | Dr. Milena Dragićević Šešić /

: Αυτή ήταν μια μεγαλύτερη ακαδημική και πολύ πόμπυρη παρουσιάση, αλλά φυσικά για εσάς, δεν είναι μόνο αυτό, είμαι επίσης ένας πρακτικτήρας, άνθρωπος που είναι δημιουργημένος μέσα στην κοινωνική κοινωνία, σαν κέντρο για την Ευρωπαϊκή Κοινότητα. Αυτή είναι η πρακτικότητα. Αυτή είναι η πρακτικότητα. Ε...

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Γλώσσα:en
Είδος:Ακαδημαϊκές/Επιστημονικές εκδηλώσεις
Συλλογή: /
Ημερομηνία έκδοσης: Onassis Foundation 2020
Θέματα:
Διαθέσιμο Online:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv8i_ipF9_I&list=PLq7qHS4BDtYM-a3fBw7arKt4tIy5ih2-e
Απομαγνητοφώνηση
: Αυτή ήταν μια μεγαλύτερη ακαδημική και πολύ πόμπυρη παρουσιάση, αλλά φυσικά για εσάς, δεν είναι μόνο αυτό, είμαι επίσης ένας πρακτικτήρας, άνθρωπος που είναι δημιουργημένος μέσα στην κοινωνική κοινωνία, σαν κέντρο για την Ευρωπαϊκή Κοινότητα. Αυτή είναι η πρακτικότητα. Αυτή είναι η πρακτικότητα. Είναι δημιουργημένη μέσα στην κοινωνική κοινωνία, σαν κέντρο για την Ευρωπαϊκή Κοινότητα, σαν κέντρο για την Ευρωπαϊκή Κοινότητα, ή η face of the street, μια εργασία εργασίας για την πραγματικότητα για την εργασία εργασίας, δημιουργημένη μέσα σε ευρύτερα κοινωνικά κοινότητα. Και πολλές άλλες, ακόμα ένας που χρησιμοποιείται το όνομα που αγόραω σήμερα, είναι το Creative Mentorship. Είναι μια οργανισμότητα, NGO, που προσπαθεί να σχεδιάσουμε πρακτικότητες με νέους, εμμερισμένους εργαστικούς και τέτοια. Αλλά σήμερα αυτό το όνομα, Creative, χρησιμοποιείται για όλα, αλλά όχι για το πραγματικό, που αποφάσισα να χρησιμοποιήσω. Ωστόσο, γιατί αποφάσισα να μιλήσω για τις Ευρωπαϊκές Κοινότητες ως εργασιακούς εργαστικούς στον κοινό κοινό, όσο είναι σημαντικό να είναι και είναι, εργασία κοινωνικής οργανισμός, αλλά το επίπεδο της δουλειάς και της σημασίας και των αξιών που προσπαθούν, πραγματικά χρησιμοποιούν στον κοινό κοινό που είναι σήμερα σε σκληρή θέση. Δεν θα μιλήσω για όλα αυτά, αλλά όλοι γνωρίζετε τι είναι το είδος κοινωνικής κοινωνίας που ζούμε. Είναι η κοινωνική κοινωνία που υποστηρίζει όλους τους εργασιακούς εργαστικούς να είναι εξαιρετικά επιτυχισμένοι. Ένας από τους λόγους, πιστεύω, είναι ότι είμαι σχεδιασμένη να βρίσκομαι μπροστά σας ως κάποιον που δεν έκανε πραγματικά να βοηθήσει τη δημιουργία της μουσικής, της εργασίας, της κοινωνίας στην Σερβία. Γιατί? Γιατί δεν μπορείς να είσαι πραγματικά επιτυχισμένος με τη δημιουργία της μουσικής. Δεν μπορείς να δημιουργηθείς πολλά κοινωνία για να σημαίνει κάτι. Δεν έχουμε ακόμα κανένα τρόπο κοινωνικής κοινωνίας εξωτερικά από κοινωνικούς εργασιακούς, κοινωνικούς εργαστικούς. Και όλα τα εργασία μου, σωστά, δείχνουν αυτό. Οπότε, ναι, δεν είναι σημαντικό να γίνει ένα κοινωνικό σχολείο, αλλά αυτό είναι. Θα δείξετε, επίσης, ποιος και γιατί και πώς μπορεί να γίνει ένας μεγαλύτερος κοινωνικός εργαστικός τρόπος μουσικής. Ζητώντας σε τέτοιο κόσμο, ποιος είναι στροφός να φτιάξει μια νέα ουτοπία, κόμμα κοινωνικής εργασίας, γιατί δεν υπάρχει κοινωνικής εργασίας. Ίσως λίγο, σε σκανδιναβικές χώρες, αλλά υπάρχουν πράγματα που βελτιώσουν ακόμα εκεί. Δεν ξέρω, αν παρακολουθήσατε τον βίντεο του Michael Moore, τι να εξελίξει επόμενο. Μετά θα μπορούσαμε να δούμε την Φινλανδία ως χώρα κοινωνικής εργασίας, όπου κάθε σχολή είναι ίδια στην χωριά ή στην πόλη. Υποθέτως, σε περισσότερες χώρες, ακόμα και αυτή η οικογένεια εργασίας, όχι μόνο κλάση, είναι ακόμα πολύ σημαντική. Μερικές φορές, οι φοιτητές μου λένε ότι εξελίξεις, δεν υπάρχει κανέναν πρόβλημα. Υπάρχει πρόβλημα. Στην Ελλάδα υπάρχουν πολλά χώρια. Και το βλέπεις εδώ, στις σύνορες της Ελλάδας. Στην Απερθέτη, μου ρωτάνε, είναι αυτό μια λεπτά ιστορία από πριν την Αυθή Αφρική, μόνο επικοινωνούν αυτόν τον κόσμο. Λέω, κοιτάξτε τους καλλιτέχνες μας Παλαιστίνες, τι kind of life they have, not only in Gaza, but also on the Palestinian, especially occupied territories. Look at the migrations that are happening and the response, not only of EU countries, but also all other countries, towards this. Look at the influence and impact of global capitalism on lifestyles, on our art field and so on. Not to speak about all the other issues that you can read. And basically what is the most significant is this lack of social justice. Consequences. Political populism that is spread now throughout the art field. And I see that soon ELIA is going to organize a conference about populism in the arts. We had it, arts, culture and media in the era of populist political communication two years ago and printed book about it. Speak about embargo, exclusion of different territories. We need new geographies, but geographies that are not dependent of if you like or dislike certain ruler and so on, because in every country of the world there are humans, there are people, there are also artists. Censorship everywhere. In the West, in the East. It only depends how it's dealt with. Political censorship, financial censorship. I'm specifically of course sensitive and this kind of censorship is happening in EU countries like in Hungary, where urban government dared to question university autonomy and abolished all gender studies department throughout Hungary and nothing happens. In spite of the discourse of gender equity and so on. In my country they do a lot of financial, for example this organization, financial censorship. Center for Cultural Decontamination gets zero funding for any. They get creative Europe, but they don't get any money from city of Belgrade for example or from Ministry of Culture. So that's very interesting how this financial censorship can really asphyxiate some small organization. Street censorship. Censorship that stands in front of theaters starting in UK with Bexley in Birmingham long time ago, but now recently in France Teatro de la Colline dared to put Handke on the stage. And Handke among many of us let's say liberal leftist intelligentsia is not nicely seen due to his certain statement related to war in Yugoslavia and so on. But this kind of boycott which happens very often due to religious region for example for Croatian, Mitterrandsen, Oliver Friljic seems to spread more and more throughout even EU country not to speak about other. So commodification of culture, spectacularization, what is bringing? Brings precarization of artists, of cultural entrepreneurs and workers and very often we see this word entrepreneurialism seen as a panacea that if we would educate artists to become entrepreneurs everything is going to change. In fact when I use this word entrepreneurialism I think about entrepreneurialism of solidarity of sharing that I could experience myself in different European networks sometimes, sometimes not. For example my network Encat stood up in front of the official delegates of Council of Europe when they asked that I should be removed from the board due to the fact that I am coming from Yugoslavia. In spite of the fact that I was a fighter against the war and against the regime but any person coming from this country should be boycotted. That was official statement of both EU, Council of Europe and so on and my Encat network said no. But then later on when I asked solidarity within ELIA board to support Rector of Music Academy in Turkmenistan they said we are not interfering in politics. I said people the guy was not doing politics he was playing Tchaikovsky in American embassy and somebody denounced him of playing western music because it became prohibited. I don't even know how much you know about musical situation in Central Asia because they used to have within Soviet Union very good quality education in music and then in some of the dictatorship they had to abolish this western music that includes Glinka, Tchaikovsky, whoever and to go to the ethnic instruments only and so on. Anyway to come back to our sometimes network can really be helpful and can do help a lot to the institution, organizations and so on. Sometimes they just say we don't care, we don't want to interfere. Anyway this is one very nice piece of drawing of Vahida Ramvikic, Serbian Bosnian artist, woman artist done for one of my book about cultural policies which represents how she thinks that there are efforts done by educational and by cultural policies but general policies of the country would draw it apart. So yes in a certain way I am against entrepreneurialism as an ultimate skill of so called expanded professionalism in art and culture because I think that artist has all right to stay artist not that we ask for him to become entrepreneur. So I think we should revisit the notion of entrepreneurialism because entrepreneurialism can be part of civic agenda. What you have shown yesterday with this project it was entrepreneurial. It was ways how in a transdisciplinary manner, participatory manner how to make audience more sensitive, more open toward let's say new music, contemporary music that is really for most of the audiences especially us that escape music school. I really ran away because of Solfeggio professor how it is called Ecole Boussonniere. I just stopped going without even informing my parents. So it was a big surprise in a family that they are very nice and very super daughter when she was nine stopped going to music school. But I didn't like to be humiliated for not having enough talent to become future music professional. I knew that I'm not going to be music professional but schools in Serbia music schools they're only for children that have excessive talent and that to their competitive teachers they can help to get some prizes and so on. So if you're just a kid who would like to learn something to play you are not interesting neither for school neither for professor and so on. So responsible society and we as responsible cultural workers because that's the problem. How to bring this average family which was not educated in culture which is bombarded by different entertainment experiences and even art became experience economy, entertainment economy and so on. Do we accept that or we want to do it in different manner? If you accept that that's what we get. Probably you know this project from visual arts to former Russian artist now New York artist Komar and Melamed. They do marketing research in every country of the world where they exhibit and by the response of the audience they made the most wanted picture of this country. And you might even recognize American taste, Russian taste, Danish taste, Kenyan taste. We can go on further, further. The only exception in Europe that's very interesting is Holland. This is the only country where citizens voted for abstract art and there are lots of things that we can debate why it is. So populist cultural politics demands something that is spectacular. So in Serbia Philharmonic that basically when they have hundred people in the concert room that super organize this Philharmonic picnic and you even see how it is advertised. Not very ecolo those cars are parked on grass, plastic or whatever plates and so on. But our government is delighted with the director of Philharmonic with his managerial, entrepreneurial and all other skills that he is having. Yes they can gather 40,000 people for this kind of picnic but is this really about audience development? None of those 40,000 people is coming then back to the concert halls or to any other music experience. So I'm asking myself what are new possibilities and can network offer some other types of platforms and I think yes. They offer us possibility to meet across of our borders not only nation state borders but also our mental borders, our stereotypes and so on. And maybe in this kind of dialogue with so diverse people we might come up with some new idea because everyone in our own cultural scene and so on. It's little bit with stereotypes, with pre-assumption and so on. And we experts somehow we are also already in auto censorship. You can see that if you are watching titles of the projects that compete for any kind of Horizon 2020 we know how if we want to win the project, if we want to win European money we know what are the key words and what has to be said and how it should be said. And even interestingly enough for some kind of projects even if they use all these words and so on it doesn't work that much. I will tell you one type of projects that rarely gets European money you can check. It's projects related to Roma with Roma. So not patronizing projects by elites about Roma but if you have many Roma organizations within the project you are not easily going to get European money, foreign money. It's some kind of stereotype, lack of trust and so on. Anyway we need solidarity actions, empathy, partnering in collaborative processes that are not always fitting European agendas. So I here find this quotation which I found very good, value of networks we don't have to prove anymore. It is collaboration not necessarily has to be pan-European. It can be a network of trans-discipline. It can be kind of ad hoc project network and those networks are most powerful who are rising organically and so on. If they link people from different communities creating new platforms then they are really networks. That's what differ them from association, classical type. You all know Association Européenne de Conservatoire and so on can be only conservatories and so on. In networks usually the possibility to enter can be more free and so on. Those projects often are bringing new ideas and concerns. For example this project Auslander Raus was what it was 15 years ago in Vienna. We are now speaking about artistic project for migrant communities and so on. But he did something that in the same time contested populist political communication with reality TV shows and so on. And all this hatred toward the other and so on. This Schlingensief container unfortunately this German artist is dead. But this is something that then spread throughout different kind of sub-artistic networks. So my research questions are really how public role and interest for culture could be defended because it is under the threat. This public role of culture and cultural activities as more organizations and institutions are forced to address sponsorship. Of course you can address sponsorship but sponsors want spectacles, want big manifestation. They don't want young artists from Belarus for example exhibition or from Benin or from I don't know Cambodia for example. That's interesting issue you might lobby for that. Cambodia is the country without EUNIK because there is only one foreign institute, French institute, no Goethe, no British council, nobody. Why? Cambodia is not a market. Vietnam is a market. Vietnam is socialist country, censorship, everyone is there because it's nearly 100 million people, industry and so on. Cambodia, 10 to 12 million people, 80% live in the rural area. That means they are not consumers for creative industries for example. So why British council would be there? Although it's kingdom, democracy, so-called democracy, same president on the power since 1975. He was Khmer Rouge General and in continue till today. Anyway, this is just to raise a little bit curiosity. No really because I think what we are lacking, we are lacking curiosity because curiosity is forcing us to make digressions, to go to another area. So for our career path in contemporary world, maybe it's not that for musicians but for researchers. They're like, your UDK numbers are so numerous, you have to have one research area and then it looks serious and so on. In spite of all transdisciplinary discourses and so on. So we have to enable flows of ideas and yes, I'm interested in how artists and operators react on the challenges of 21st century. From migrant crisis to global warming, digitalization. I was by the way very happy not to hear the words, we are living in the 4.0 industry era and so on. Because that type of buzzwords are, I would say, killing in fact the real deep thinking about some problem. I'm going to skip this historical approach because you know that probably even better than me. But what I wanted to say, yes it existed, networks existed always in history. And yes, networks were facing, always saying, poor Bazille was killed in the French-Prussian war. So he stopped, he was the core and heart of networking. Not to speak about avant-garde that really introduced what we are lacking today, transdisciplinary network. Only when you look at these names down there that were doing several projects together. You can see to what extent this cross-fertilization was famous. Not to speak about Russian avant-garde and so on. That could spread throughout the frontiers, even outside of Soviet Union to come. Not only that physically Kandinsky and few others came to Chagall to the west, but also through journals, through reviews. These kind of, how to say, virtual network in that time spread a lot of ideas and so on. So yes, networks were important in a peace building process, especially after World War II. But for us I think it's much more important this second wave of networking that felt spirit of the time. Interestingly enough, if you read literature about network, you are going to read everything about fall of the wall. Like this wall falls somehow. The word perestroika disappeared, which contributed a lot from inside for the wall to fall and things to change. Central Europe as a concept was invented by us in Central Europe. Now I have to say Belgrade is frontier in the Balkans and Central Europe. So we feel our multiple identities belonging to this Central European identity, but also very much specifically related culturally to Central Europe. Culturally and artistically, but culturally in the way of living to the Balkans. Anyway, we have to rethink why those networks have been created. What kind of solidarity made them to happen? Because yes, it was rise of independent actors in European culture throughout Europe. And it was this flexible, sustainable structure. By the way, one American cultural analyst, Alvin Toffler, in his book in end of 60s, I think beginning of 70s, we published it in Yugoslavia in 72, Shock of the Future, he has written a lot about this adhocracy that networks are providing and so on. So this was, networking was a response to a certain necessity. Necessity of mutual help outside of official circuits, of official public policies. And necessity that each of us, cultural worker, researcher, artist, has to have to break isolation and to enter in the action and that's very easy. So Council of Europe very quickly recognized a huge potential. They created this European Forum of Networks in 1993, 1994. There was even some declaration. Everything is forgotten. Council of Europe doesn't have money. That means, doesn't have any political meaning today. Many networks disappeared. For example, one network that for us in the Balkans was very important, Ballieu d'Europe, disappeared. And it's not very active, although they had antenna in Bucharest and that was really network that the name is saying, connecting. Really young emerging artists, activists, social entrepreneur and so on. And stimulated a lot of this kind of experiments and innovation. Some networks are very prestigious. Culture Action Europe, lobby network in Brussels and they are there. I mean, now president might be in Budapest, but that's basically that. Some are on the ground, Musicians Sans Frontieres. In Serbia, nobody heard for them. But in many Bosnian cities, the young people wouldn't have any chance of normal life without this organization. So it really depends how and where certain network find a circle of colleagues, friends, individuals that are motivated to do something together. I'm not going to speak a lot about it because, yes, network might be very important for professionalization of certain area. For example, when in 1992 we created ENCAT network, there were very few professional academics in cultural management area and so on. Not to speak about trainers. And this network helped a lot that standards and even ethics of this profession started to be debate. Sometimes the network is just sectorial alliance that enables cooperation and enables making projects and so on. Sometimes it's a coalition for a success, for career making, for money making and so on. But I would say that the most successful networks are those that are sharing same values, same interest and that they are really ready to act in public interest. For example, network of film producers in my country is really professional association and they just don't care about anything but success. Bigger budget for film in the country, their bigger budget, their big success and so on. But some other networks of similar kind of producers are totally different and oriented towards development of, for example, in the musical field. For music taste, for musical cultures, for musical education. Because in many countries of the world children are deprived of possibility of music education. When you look at Eurostat practitioners you see that from Austria, Germany onwards Scandinavia. These are most people in their adult age continue to practice music instrument that they used to learn in school. But going south, Bulgaria, Romania, these newcomers in European Union, you see that there is no practitioner's hobby. The word hobby even doesn't exist. Why? Because people have to do three, four, five jobs to survive so no time for hobby. Now my favorite part of the topic is networking within an alternative scene. What does it mean? It means that, in fact I will jump to the next slide, those are networks that regroup subaltern counterpublics. It looks very stressy. The word counterpublic comes from feminist theory because lots of feminist movements succeeded to organize their socio-cultural value chains, ecosystem like we say today. Where only their publishing, their performing, their different kind of organization, institutions exist and that's like parallel reality. In my country and in the whole region of the Balkans this is something that was necessary to survive. We had to distant ourselves, we had to create, it took us five years for example to persuade very rich guy Mr. Soros who would like to give money for projects. That there is no way for projects to be realized if he doesn't support infrastructural projects like Rex Cultural Center of Radio B92 or Center for Cultural Decontamination. And that became the gathering spaces and open studios throughout Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia so that the people can gather. Fighting against official policies and official policies had been nationalism, xenophobia, patriarchal values. That's very official, I mean that's not something that is embedded, it's going from above, hatred speech. For example you can see even in Bosnia, never in my youth time you could see the woman with the scarf in Bosnia, even in remote village. Now it's pretty, why? Because it's demanded from authorities, not only from priests of Islamic religion but even from authorities. So subaltern cultural counter public mostly use different participative artistic practices as the main means of expression. And that was especially practiced throughout the 90s when we had to find a way to express and to be heard. And it was through all different sorts of music that was possible. Music radio activism for example was before internet radios very known, unfortunately exactly our most rebellious music radio station was both recently, 10 years ago relatively recently. And from this radio station that we had all alternative news, now they made playlists, no journalists, no music editors, it's just no persons, computers programming playlists and audiences listening. And they say that's very commercially successful. Anyway, War Boogie, Vuk Kulenovic, he is and was professor in Boston but he came to Belgrade deliberately. And in the concert hall of classical music he was let that his War Boogie, that he perform it because people knew that contemporary classical music is not really audience interesting. Association of Composers made this fantastic event of kneeling to stop the war. Of course it didn't stop war. This carnival music production lasted for four months. When people ask me like, happy you, you didn't have lectures for four months. I said yeah, but 12 to 3 student protest we had to walk around the city, 3 to 6 citizen protest walking around the city. And then 9.30 noise making in the neighborhood. You have to go back to your apartment and to make music or noise with whatever instrument to prevent your neighbors to listen public television news. That was for my children that was the most exciting part of this protest because we found all these kitchen things to make noise. And then of course some more clever neighbors they put loudspeakers on the windows or on the balconies and they really did some nasty music and so on. So basically in the late, late in the evening we had our activist meetings and so on. You see here for example how it looks in 1992 with this track with the three rock groups and how many people were against the war. By the way, when I went to the Bern Parliament in Switzerland that summer and I asked why no one in the western media was writing about the 1992 student protest. The protest was three months long boycott so June month was lost for exams and so on. They said to me we cannot confuse public opinion. There is a good guy, bad guy and now to say that in Belgrade there are some good guys that would confuse public opinion so who cares. Serbian Youth Music Theatre, now we all know. For me the most stress event in my life was my first seminar with youth in Bosnia in 2002 when two girls from Srebrenica were totally not participating, looking to you empty. And finally when I tried to discuss they told me and they've been visual artists that they just can't even look at others. They might see that in other cities there is kind of a hope, Doboj, Travnik, Mostar, whatever, but in Srebrenica there is none. Every day new refugees coming and then some going because there is no life, no job, no nothing. Then in 2008 I went to Srebrenica with Musicien Sans Frontieres and everyone in Belgrade asked me why you are going there? That's a genocide place but children are living in this place. And for Serbian nationalists totally incomprehensible now most of the children in Srebrenica today are Serbian children, refugees from other parts of Bosnia, so also exiled. And they are all so unhappy and there is so such a hatred or survivor Bosnian population. This Serbian population sent there because the government don't care and they wanted to populate Srebrenica because territorially it belonged to Republic of Srpska so they wanted to populate it with Serbian population. So everyone who lives there lives under terror and the children told me sometimes they shout on us if we sing, if we dance. But we are living in this city, we have a right to have a rock concert here and they say no, it's a place of graveyard, you don't have a right to listen loudly music, not to have a rock concert or festival or anything like that. So who might be active there? There is no locally anyone. Only some European networks like this museum can go there and raise intercultural sensitivity into totally divided population like in Mostar population. For example EU didn't get it. This year was selection for the cultural capital of Europe and there was Bosnia and Norway mutually competing, I don't know because it's from the outside EU cultural capital in 2024. And instead to give chance to Mostar they gave chance to Banja Luka but then obviously somebody realized that it wouldn't be politically correct that one mono-ethnic city in contemporary Bosnia gets the right to be European cultural capital. So they gave the title to Norwegian city which has anyway money, capacity, everything, if they want to connect they can. For Mostar that could be the only chance to make people cross the bridge that was rebuilt by European Union money and which besides tourists nobody else is crossing. But here they lacked some networks. Basically I think networks are really important or could be important especially through participative art projects that civic imagination can go to civic engagement. And that I'm going to jump in to show quickly how it worked with only one artist that developed in Germany lots of projects dealing with negative past. So our Balkan network of former Soros now centers for contemporary arts inspired with this counter monument movement created also just to explain or to show you maybe you don't know what does counter monument mean. That's one of the hundreds of counter monuments that Jochen Gerz was raising throughout Europe. Now some of them are starting to be turned down. For example in Graz when Graz right wing got power the first thing to do but literally two days after they stepped in the city hall they abolished Jochen Gerz memorial that reminds Graz people to their fascist part. Participation that they were not just victims of fascism they were actively participated. Here it was a three year project collective production. It was not starting as an idea of Jochen Gerz but it was starting as a research and students came up after realizing that once upon a time there was 2,146 Jewish graveyards in Germany. Now probably 30 and that memory is lost. There is not even trace of it because there is no population who can keep care of those cemeteries. So they made the project they collected the name on the cobblestone they were writing those names of the graveyards they were putting on this pavement inside brick and back that you cannot see it. So it's empty whatever monument is heavy, big, visible, pretentious and so on. Here you can't see it but intelligent government of this region in Germany accepted the project when they realized what's going on during night and named this square monument against racism and so on. Networks are here I think also to fight to be very entrepreneurial in redefining European identities I put it sorry in singular it should be in plural based on the same value but however European. Sami people, Sami music started to be integrated just few years ago. Roma culture two Roma pavilion in Venice Biennial 2007-2011 all EU representatives has been on the openings. Council of Europe, European Cultural Foundation, UNESCO of course zero minister of culture all ministers of culture for example in 2007 there was Roma artists for 12 European countries France, Spain, Hungary, Romania, Serbia, Bosnia etc. No single even my minister of culture from Serbia that I knew by pure chance personally I asked him he said no I have exactly in that moment I have a coffee with the Montenegrin ministry of culture they've been the classmates acting department of our school. And I said but come together for the Roma pavilion opening we have our Serbian artists there no and that's the relationship in spite of all discourse of equity. Deliberately yesterday night that was innovation in this PowerPoint regarding the first one that I sent I put this piece because we are in Athens and because whenever I ask my Greek students what they know about Greek Civil War basically they know that it existed and that it finished. How why what were the consequences no one knows. And what happened to those children that was thousands of children that were sent in 1949 to Eastern Europe to Soviet Union. Nobody knows. So I wanted to show the painting of the representative in Venice Biennial of Yugoslav pavilion in 1983 that was born in 42 here in Greece in Florida exported as a child to the orphanage in Soviet Union. Luckily due to the Tito regime repatriated in Yugoslavia but he was not from Yugoslavia and nobody is interesting. The same situation like we in Serbia we don't have any interest for Germans that we expelled in 48 from Yugoslavia. If they are artists if they are this or that we don't care. Only we care recently for one that got Oscar for some some special effects and then it was realized but the guy was born on our territory in Serbia and so on that we expelled him who cares that's not that that important. That's something we have still very many things that we don't speak about and networks are really the platform to enhance this kind of controversial speech. This is supposed to be a participative art project in the center of Belgrade to include citizens and so on but the very moment citizens approach its Dach theatre troupe when they read Srebrenica genocide that's they run away. They don't beat them that's already something that there is no aggression but they run away. These are also some of the participative projects done by artists in different site specific location in Belgrade. Here is this very nice bread and puppet theatre and so on. I will finish a little bit earlier than I thought I will because time is up. Networks are the best forms for bottom-up cultural policies. Each of us is lonely and cannot have a strong voice but network might have a stronger voice and help those who are coming not from that many democratic countries to be stronger to hear to learn but also to express. I deliberately put this picture so it's not European network it's Indian theatre forum. Why I thought it's important in this country without public cultural policy today with the heavy right wing government that is really repressing Muslim population and leftist and New York University students and so on. This network is self-organized learning network through peer learning. It's also advocacy network. It's a huge solidarity network especially for their theatre colleagues of Muslim origin because the name is revelatory. They act more as Hindi most of them than for example famous Bollywood actors of Muslim origin that are afraid and they keep silent on this terror and whatever happening. So to use the reader words an act of hospitality can be only poetic. Thank you.